An Adapation Experiment.

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Elishima
Undertale Pass Holder

Let's-a-go!

Posts: 918

An Adapation Experiment. Apr 27, 2016 0:41:56 GMT Minerva Seyfarth likes this

Post by Elishima on Apr 27, 2016 0:41:56 GMT

I have the whole cast on my hands and loads of extra time, so why not?

Today (and probably for awhile), I'm going to be testing who makes the cut above the rest when it comes to adapting in a tournament setting, and who gets left in the dust.

At this point, I think a lot of us know that the tier list hasn't lied when it comes to placing in a tournament, but is there untapped potential waiting right around the corner? Well, let's find out!

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One thing I want to note before we begin is that I will NOT be using Mii Fighters for this experiment. This is because of the complexity of the different weight/size classes you can choose that would be much too time consuming to log.

With that out of the way, I'll explain how matches/sets are going to be played out.

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2-stocks, 6-mintues

Best 2 out of 3

No Items

The only stages used will be Final Destination (1st match), Battlefield (2nd match,) and if we go to game 3, the tie breaking stage will be Duck Hunt

Each character will get play about 2 sets with a specific character, and will each get in at least 108 matches of play time, as we go around the roster

When an amiibo has to face their own character, they will face a Lv.9 CPU mirror

The starting character is Mario, and will end with Ryu.

Depending on if I get requests or not, the order the characters will be fighting each other are going to be based off of the 3DS Version's roster format

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Done with the rules, now on to the details...

All the amiibo I'm testing are mostly vanilla, mostly. While they don't actually have equipment points, I've stacked the Smooth Lander Bonus 3x (which basically halves all landing lag on aerial attacks) universally so that characters who have a reliant on aerial attacks have a better chance at fairing against the rest of the cast.

(If stacked SL proves to give any character a significant advantage above, I'll make sure to note it in the results. I don't expect it to really do much, since the smarter amiibo will still block said aerial attacks anyway.)

With the exception of the DLC characters, all characters have been equipped with Custom Moves that I think will benefit them the most. Because I'm a bit inexperienced when it comes to custom moves in general, any suggestions regarding them would be great! It would help me get the most out of this experiment while also keeping things fair.

One last thing to address before we get on, if you're worried about some characters getting more training time than others, don't worry. Most of the characters have barely had any interaction with each other, outside of a few dedicated training partners. (Tbh, that training partner is mostly Donkey Kong. So if he loses, you can't say he doesn't have enough experience...) There's been a lot more preparation put into this than one would think!

That pretty much wraps it up... From here, I just record results for each character and average out their win ratio. Once I do that, we can use those results to get a good idea on how consistent and smart the AI of a certain character can be if put under pressure.

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Without further a due, we'll be starting with Mr. Nintendo himself, Mario!

CUSTOM MOVES:

Scaling F.L.U.D.D.

That's it.

I honestly think Mario is really good, even without customs, I believe he can still hold his own pretty well.

(I'll post the results for Mario in his own dedicated post when I'm done, this'll probably take awhile...)

Last Edit: Apr 27, 2016 2:06:26 GMT by Elishima

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

John 3:16

Elishima
Undertale Pass Holder

Let's-a-go!

Posts: 918

An Adapation Experiment. Apr 30, 2016 2:08:58 GMT

Post by Elishima on Apr 30, 2016 2:08:58 GMT

(Sorry for the delay, had stuff going on.)

Mario makes quite the impressive showing, dominating about 90% of the cast, with the potential to really do damage to the tournament scene. While he can have trouble with characters that outrange and out KO him, he's a very strong amiibo with a moveset that allows him to get the upper hand in unfavorable situations.

Here are Mario's results!

(Mario wins vs a Lv.9 mirror btw)

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Vs Luigi

[Mario 2 - 0 Luigi]

This matchup, for the most part, is pretty even. What truly decides the victor though is how easy Mario can get KO's compared to his younger brother. Luigi definitely has the superior combo ability, damage output, and even recovery, but Mario's consistent playstyle can easily net him the win here. There's really no argument for me to put up to defend Luigi, because he really does just lose here. With equipment, it might be different, but in a world where adaption is key, Mario takes the cake.

I can easily say that this is in Mario's favor.

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Vs Peach

[Mario 2 - 1 Peach]

Now, believe it or not, Peach was almost the first character to win a set against Mario. She almost had him too, but Mario was able to bring it back and secure the set.

This matchup is pretty interesting. Peach obviously has a much better up close game, and has enough power to level the playing field in just a couple good smacks with her crown and frying pan. Mario has the speed and mobility. If you do the math with character attributes n' such, this match is pretty even. That's for character attributes though, not AI.

No, Mario has a slight advantage against Peach in the regard of adapting and gets more reward for mixing it up more. Peach is pretty good, don't get me wrong, but I don't think her AI has the edge it needs to go against Mario. I do know however, her amiibo can learn an advanced technique called Float Cancelling; which pretty much allows her to stay low to the ground so she can hit with her best aerials. If my Peach used this more, she probably would've taken the set.

But no, the influence effect strikes again.

Maybe next time, Peach.

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Vs Bowser

[Mario 2 - 0 Bowser]

Yeah, Mario runs in circles around Bowser here.

I'm not even joking. Bowser couldn't land crud with Mario jumping over every single attempt Bowser made to get a grab or counter attack with a forward smash or Flying Slam. There's not much Bowser could do here honestly. The only hits Bowser could even land were all reads, and well all know amiibo are far from perfect.

Who knew the key to beating Bowser was to run in circles around him?

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Vs Rosalina and Luma

[Mario 2 - 1 Rosalina]

More characters that Mario can run circles around, yay!

The Rosalina matchup is pretty even, but I have to say that it's slightly in Mario's favor. Not for AI though, because they're both great at being smart. Mario can win this one because of his small frame and having more consistent ways of getting a KO, but Rosalina can still turn the tide if she can land a move. Fortunately for Mario, her amiibo likes to throw out perhaps the easiest moves to block possible. Still though, you roll the dice and you move your mice, people can get hurt.

I think my Mario was a bit lucky here, so don't think this is a free win by any means.

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Vs Yoshi

[Mario 2 - 0 Yoshi]

Mario just wins, Yoshi has terrible AI lol

Easy money.

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Vs Bowser Jr.

[Mario 2 - 1 Bowser Jr.]

Unlike Bowser, his son doesn't exactly guarantee a win for Mario. Especially since Bowser Jr. has a much easier time keeping up with Mario, thanks to his amazing mobility. The problem lies in Bowser Jr.'s ability to land KO moves, whereas Mario can land them much easier. Funny how that works, huh? Bowser Jr.'s attacks are pretty damaging (especially with his smash attacks), but its nothing Mario can't get around with a bit of baiting.

This one is in Mario's favor in this setting, but with equipment, this Bowser Jr. could potentially cause him some trouble.

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Vs Wario

[Mario 2 - 1 Wario]

Wario can give Mario a little bit of trouble, since Wario here has a great priority in his air game that can catch Mario while he's airborne. Mario also has to watch out for Wario's Chomp, which is really, really damaging.

Other than that though, Mario wins pretty solidly. Sure Wario obviously has the better attack power, but his stubby range is easy for Mario to move around.

This matchup could be different with equipment, buuuuuut, I wouldn't count on it lol

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Vs Mr. Game and Watch

[Mario 2 - 0 Mr. G&W]

Yeah... Mario wins this one pretty solidly.

Mr. Game and Watch has some pretty slick dodging abilities, but he just cannot kill for the life of him. Seriously, this matchup is a piece o' cake for Mario. The only thing I'd worry about at all here is G&W's grab game, but his grab is so stubby, Mario can just move a little bit and have it whiff every time.

I can't say much for equipment, but then again, I'm a vanilla trainer, so It's hard to say. I honestly don't think there's much G&W could do here though.

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Vs Donkey Kong

[Mario 2 - 0 Donkey Kong]

(Why I thought DK could take a game off of one of the best amiibo, I don't know lol)

Say, you wanna hear a joke?

Donkey Kong.

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Vs Diddy Kong

[Mario 2 - 0 Diddy Kong]

Diddy Kong is a bit of a different story from his uncle, but since fellow Kongs are like Kongs, Diddy inherits his uncle's awkward hitbox problem. Mr. Face Hugger here has a bit of an easier time though, because he's much faster and has surprisingly great range for his size. If it weren't for the fact that Diddy's recovery can be gimped from a feather, he would actually do alright, but custom moves won't save this one...

Diddy can keep it even, but once he's offstage, its pretty much game over. Also, Mario is much more consistent.

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Vs Link

[Mario 2 - 1 Link]

The Hero of Time can cause some real problems for Mario, but he doesn't do a good job at it.

Mario does a really good job at staying consistent and dodging Link's attacks, though I think its a bit easier for Mario because of his excellent air speed- so he can poke Link with aerials all he wants and Link can't punish with an up smash like he usually does. Also, Mario wins in AI.

Overall, Link can keep Mario at bay with his range and power, but he fails to impress when Mario gets up close and personal.

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Vs Zelda

[Mario 1 - 2 Zelda]

Out of all the characters to be the hero and take the first set off of Mario, I was really shocked to see that Zelda paid for the bill.

While I think Mario may have had some inconsistency here thanks to Link and his smash attack spam, Zelda actually has some pretty good tools to contend against the red-clad plumber. Mario has to play it really safe, because Zelda's punishing game is really on point. Not only that, but Zelda is just really powerful and has a great defensive game. She also has some pretty solid kill throws too, which add to her arsenal of kill moves.

Had these two been playing at their peak, I would say this set would've gone either way. Guess Mario lost his footing here.

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Vs Sheik

[Mario 2 - 1 Sheik]

This one is actually pretty even, take it or leave it. Sheik is just fast enough to keep up with Mario, while also staying super slippery and not getting hit. The only thing that gives Mario the extra bagel here is that Mario can KO much easier than Sheik can. Which basically means that if Sheik wins, she was playing absolutely amazing and get hard reads for kills.

Overall, Mario has an advantage here, but its definitely not an easy win and could potentially bite him in the but if equipment is involved.

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Vs Ganondorf

[Mario 0 - 2 Ganondorf]

Thanks to Ganondorf's superior power, AI, and range, The King of Evil really does give Mario a hard time.

Honestly, I'd say that this one is one of the only matchups Mario can truly struggle in, because one mistake and Mario eats about 40%. It's not as bad as Little Mac per say, but it's still enough to be an uphill battle. Mario does have his amazing mobility and speed though, so as long as Mario can play safe, he might be able to pull off a win in a tournament setting.

Ganondorf counters Mario, both with and without equipment.

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TO BE CONTINUED

Last Edit: Apr 30, 2016 2:17:30 GMT by Elishima

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

John 3:16