skymiibo
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the living meme.
Posts: 199
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Post by skymiibo on May 10, 2016 22:13:04 GMT
Why are all of you so.. Obsessed with your “low ranks?” None of them have EVER won a tournament. You all want to be winners, right? Then my best advice is to stop wasting your time on low tiers.
Here’s some statistics to prove it to you. I’ll be listing the winners of all the AWTs, AMIIBOMANIAS, and WAS’ with no theme.
WINNER OF AWT1- Ganondorf (S Rank) WINNERS OF AWT2- Mario & Ganondorf (both S Rank) WINNER OF AWT3- Ness (A Rank) WINNERS OF AWT4- Ness & Ganondorf (A & S Rank) WINNER OF WAS0- Ganondorf (S Rank) WINNER OF WAS1- Little Mac (S Rank) WINNER OF AMIIBOMANIA 1- Lucina (S Rank)
Notice the ranks of the winners.
They are ALL either S or A rank. NO AMIIBO BELOW THAT RANK HAS EVER WON A TOURNEY.
So.. if you want to win. If you want power rankings. Then why waste your time? Seriously. It’s only those two ranks that can win.
I don’t want to lose anymore. I’ve risked it with R.O.B, and Zelda, and Pikachu, and Duck Hunt, and Pit. Almost every low tier I’ve EVER entered manages to lose in ROUND ONE.
I’m really tired of seeing you guys trying to put work and chance into these failures. Low Tiers = INSTANT LOSS. It’s PROVEN. Maybe, JUST MAYBE, i’ll change my mind if a low tier WINS a tournament. But they won’t. Here’s why.
People who don’t see these forums, but do see dojo’s list, will see the strongest ones. They’ll use those. People will see them win. More people will enter top tiers. Because why risk it when you can enter in a powerful amiibo that could win? Top tiers will flood the metagame- and that’s good.
The metagame NEEDS to revolve around top tier players. Think about it like this- Do you think that if ZeRo mained little mac & olimar instead of ZSS and Sheik- Would be be a winner? The answer is NO.
We need as MANY WINNERS as we can in this community. We currently only have one winning fighter who can consistently win- Cloud. The competitive communities of other games have WAY MORE than one consistent winner. If we want to be legitimate- we need more winners.
We need winners. Top Tiers are winners. Do you see what i’m saying? ENTERING LOW TIERS ONLY WEAKEN OUR REPUTATION AS A COMMUNITY. If we want to be a good, legitimate community- we have to stop using low tiers.
So this is just my thoughts. Feel free to tell me how i’m wrong, yadda yadda yadda, blah blah blah.
But when our community falls.. Who will you have to blame?
The answer is- STUPID LOW TIERS.
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pkmnmaster
Junior Member
The SAT is horrible, take the ACT instead.
Posts: 75
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Post by pkmnmaster on May 10, 2016 22:20:56 GMT
Look at it this way - low tiers may not win, but they may at least give us a good show. Plus, it seems like a low tier may win WAS 2.
EDIT - Also, using only top tiers creates a toxic metagame. Isn't that why most tournaments, including your tournament, are now banning Little Mac?
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Z
Full Member
Now I am become $wag, the moistener of your mothers' granny panties
Posts: 223
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Post by Z on May 10, 2016 22:34:18 GMT
Fine. Deedles is coming for dat ass in AM3. Just remember that Cujo toppled 2 S-Ranks in AM2 before losing to Bowser in a 'close match' to quote your twitter. Training overcomes all tierlists (unless your name is Pac Man). Your siggy says 'I train, therefore I am', but 'Muh Tiers' seems to be a much more fitting motto.
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Post by Roflcopter on May 10, 2016 23:41:20 GMT
Although it is true that some amiibo are just plain better than others with equal amount of training, there's a reason we're here that explains why you're hearing about training medium and low tier amiibo here more often than you used to.
Ganondorf, Little Mac, Bowser and Rosalina are popular picks, which kind of ruins the point of having such a big roster if we're just going to use a handful and roll with it. We're in an amiibo training community because we (hopefully) want to train characters that are more difficult to train to be powerful. Seeing a Little Mac fight another amiibo, getting the shield break and a kill is dull and seen from a mile away. Seeing a Captain Falcon fighting Link, for example, is a much rarer sight, and is more likely to keep the viewer's attention for a longer amount of time. If they've seen a matchup a lot before, they likely won't want to see it again.
Of course, we can keep going with the high tiers, but where's the fun in that? Just as variety is useful when trying to getting an amiibo on a tournament level, variety is essential to keeping an audience entertained. If we don't at least try to use the unorthodox choices, we'll find the training scene dull. We're here to have fun, right? Well, sometimes having more fun can take more effort. If we're willing to invest the time, we'll keep the smile on our faces.
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Post by namelesssseleman on May 10, 2016 23:58:21 GMT
I can totally accept your decision to train only high tiers. What I can't is you deciding to shove your opinion down our throats.
Please refrain from doing so. Thank you.
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Yung Puff
Undertale Pass Holder
Third.
Posts: 214
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Post by Yung Puff on May 11, 2016 0:43:18 GMT
"You all want to be winners, right?" Well, you see i have my games all figured out. Marvel VS Capcom 3 is My game where I will go in with 1-2 viable characters on my team. I play to win, and get better if i lose. Then, there is the genre of "If you played a different game, this game will make a lot of sense to you." That is pokken. MvC gives you all the fundamentals of a fighting game. Pokken has all those fundamentals. A way of getting around, The fighting triangle, etc. NOW, there is the game that i enjoy the most, but is missing a lot of competitive features so sometimes i cant even take it seriously. This is Amiibo. Amiibo training as something competitive is too unique to be in a category. Its also kind of hard knowing that you dont have complete control over what the amiibos do. Not to mention with things like Critical Hit, and even the smash ball (I dont even know why some people even thought this was a good idea) There is a luck factor involved. With this and other flaws i dont even care if i win or lose. I can bring up a ton of points but bottom line is, im using whoever the ★★★★ i want as long as the game stays fun for me.
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Yung Puff
Undertale Pass Holder
Third.
Posts: 214
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Post by Yung Puff on May 11, 2016 1:35:19 GMT
Also after reading over your argument, i noted some flaws.
1. Tournament results are an important factor in tier lists. Where would Villager be if Ranai wasnt around? Where would Peach and Jigglypuff be in Melee if Armada and Hbox werent around? They would be in the exact same tiers you are encouraging people not to use.
2. "Instead of Zss" Point already wrong. Its Nairo who uses Zss. ZeRo uses Diddy, who got nerfed really badly. Also, one excellent Japanese player with the name of Abadango proves your statement wrong. Taking souls with Pac-man back in 2015 comes back to the point of tournament results. Pac-man was considered A tier when Abadango uses him. Now he lurks once again in the depths of mid tier. Abadango turned to, who at one point was bottom 10 in the game, probably mid tier right now, Mewtwo. He goes to Pound, which is considered a major tournament now in 2016, and wins the whole thing. With Mewtwo. Also, he got his ass handed to him as a Meta Knight (A high tier) user in Genesis III.
3. "ENTERING LOW TIERS ONLY WEAKEN OUR REPUTATION AS A COMMUNITY" Ohh my god im actually about to bring Marvel into something!! Good luck trying to comprehend. The best fighting game player of all time is Justin Wong. If he picked up Smash 4 im pretty sure he would top ZeRo. The best player in the world would probably use someone amazing. Morrigan? Nope, Dr.Doom? No, Zero? hell no. The best character in his team is Wolverine, who he considers S- but others consider much lower. He uses Storm.. an usually low ranked character. She is smack in the middle. Average. Some characters in this game are VERY controversial, going from Mid tier to even the 4th worst in the game. Storm has a consistant spot in the middle of 50 characters. His final member in the team is Akuma. Same shoes as Storm. A player with Average characters should definitely be average right? Hell no, Wong is still the best MvC player to this day.
Dont go criticizing a community if youre going to bring a miserable community into this. Smash 4 is cancerous. Constantly fighting over melee. Other communities literally want them gone. At least know a good community before even daring to take a position. Stop trying to sound right and smart, acting like you have the experience you dont and desperately need.
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Post by KahunaLagoona on May 11, 2016 1:52:46 GMT
Because people love a good underdog story.
Do note Sky, I'll train anything. Low tiers, high tiers, don't matter to me. Mannimarco the Ganondorf may be high tier, but he's lost to Duck Hunt, Palutena, etc. and I've gone back to training him again to be better because - I like Ganondorf.
I do intend on making my holy trio of Mario/Kirby/Peach into champions though - they are my Smash 4 mains after all.
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Elishima
Undertale Pass Holder
Let's-a-go!
Posts: 918
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Post by Elishima on May 11, 2016 3:44:24 GMT
I understand your beliefs in all that (plus the little bit of extra salt that comes with it), but you don't necessarily have to beat up on all of us for doing what we want to try. Sure we want to win, at the same time though, its all in good fun and competition as well. Not only that, but we also want to learn a thing or two for our efforts.
And if you're thinking that people like ZeRo win because of their characters, just look at his results in comparison to other Smash 4 players who use the exact same characters he does.
Characters don't carry you, skill does.
Before you even think about bringing up Bayonetta here, I'll make an exception for her. She's a clear cut above the rest- and while she's not Brawl Meta Knight broken, I'd say she's close.
Getting back on topic to the subject of amiibo and using top tiers and the like, there's still so much potential in certain characters to explore. I mean look at people like friggin' TMac and his Olimar or pkmnmaster and her Palutena, look at what results they're getting. If you need evidence that we haven't cracked open all of the eggs yet, its right here.
I agree that some amiibo are worse than others, whether its by AI or their moveset translation into the competitive amiibo world, but you can't just call a book trash until you've read it all- which I'm gonna take a guess and say that you haven't. I can tell from listening to you and how you're going to shelve any amiibo that can't win you a tournament.
That my friend, won't get you anywhere.
You can argue that top tiers are the best all day man, but the mighty will fall eventually. As new characters come and go, so will previous characters that were thought to be incredibly dominate.
If you think that this community was built upon discussing how amazing top tiers are, think again.
The Amiibo Dojo has been growing thanks to the low tiers, and all of us coming together in hopes of finding whatever treasure we can with them. Heck, even Cloud , the creator of this well known tier list, has been trying to defy what he's created several times. The metagame right now is only this way because we all continue to shape top tiers into these tournaments so we can take our candy and leave.
Sure, top tiers have been winning lately, but that doesn't mean that all the other characters are invalid and unviable.
Besides, if you win with a top tier, what bragging rights do you have? Other than you've done something someone else has already done multiple times?
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Havok
Full Member
Posts: 152
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Post by Havok on May 11, 2016 12:40:42 GMT
skymiiboDefy the tier, dude. You are angry because you have had bad luck in the tournament. I've scrubbed out of 3 straight, but am I angry? No. It happens. You are frustrated because you have struggled of late. Didn't you just go deep into this last Weekly Amiibo Skirmish? The only way things change is to challenge them. We've had Olimars and Palutenas and even a ZSS challenge the tier lists lately. You don't get cred for winning a tournament with the best character, IMO. You get cred for doing well with a lower tier character. That shows me dedication and work. Anyone can enter a Little Mac and win. It's been proven. Show me you can enter something else and do well. You don't have to win because guess who we rave about on these boards? "Man, that Olimar is doing well. Look at that Duck Hunt! Palutena is owning! ZSS in the championship match!"
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skymiibo
Undertale Pass Holder
the living meme.
Posts: 199
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Post by skymiibo on May 11, 2016 13:17:33 GMT
skymiibo Defy the tier, dude. You are angry because you have had bad luck in the tournament. I've scrubbed out of 3 straight, but am I angry? No. It happens. You are frustrated because you have struggled of late. Didn't you just go deep into this last Weekly Amiibo Skirmish? The only way things change is to challenge them. We've had Olimars and Palutenas and even a ZSS challenge the tier lists lately. You don't get cred for winning a tournament with the best character, IMO. You get cred for doing well with a lower tier character. That shows me dedication and work. Anyone can enter a Little Mac and win. It's been proven. Show me you can enter something else and do well. You don't have to win because guess who we rave about on these boards? "Man, that Olimar is doing well. Look at that Duck Hunt! Palutena is owning! ZSS in the championship match!" the only reason i got far in WAS2 is because of ganondorf.
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Havok
Full Member
Posts: 152
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Post by Havok on May 11, 2016 14:01:40 GMT
Sometimes you need a streak breaker. That's all. I entered a Gannondorf in your next tournament to get me out of this funk, but that is not going to stop me from entering Villager, Diddy, or whatever else low tier I have in future tournaments. They just take time to be good.
All I can say is it is easy to make situations fit a narrative. Things are only going a certain way for you because, in your narrative, that's how it was supposed to happen. Your narrative is you lost because you entered low tier and won because you entered high tier. Maybe it was bad luck? It happens. Like I've said, I just scrubbed out of 3 straight tournaments, two of which were high tier characters. Am I salty? No. I just need to work.
Besides, not all of your wins/losses fit your narrative. Remember Dedede vs Villager?
Break the mold. Defy the tiers. Work like you've never worked before and earn the glory you desire.
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skymiibo
Undertale Pass Holder
the living meme.
Posts: 199
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Post by skymiibo on May 11, 2016 14:39:59 GMT
Sometimes you need a streak breaker. That's all. I entered a Gannondorf in your next tournament to get me out of this funk, but that is not going to stop me from entering Villager, Diddy, or whatever else low tier I have in future tournaments. They just take time to be good. All I can say is it is easy to make situations fit a narrative. Things are only going a certain way for you because, in your narrative, that's how it was supposed to happen. Your narrative is you lost because you entered low tier and won because you entered high tier. Maybe it was bad luck? It happens. Like I've said, I just scrubbed out of 3 straight tournaments, two of which were high tier characters. Am I salty? No. I just need to work. Besides, not all of your wins/losses fit your narrative. Remember Dedede vs Villager? Break the mold. Defy the tiers. Work like you've never worked before and earn the glory you desire. The glory I desire.. Can only be received from using the best. I desire Winning. I desire moving forward. Ganondorf took me farther than any other amiibo. He's s rank. See what I mean? I'll never win with low tiers. You know what? I'll make a deal with you low tier worshippers. I'll put a d rank in WAS 3. if I rank in at least the top eight.. I'll end this anti-low tier thing. I'll put faith back into them. But if I don't rank top eight.. If I go home in the first round.. I'll never use a low tier ever again, and I'll be right about them. You have yourselves a deal.
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Havok
Full Member
Posts: 152
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Post by Havok on May 11, 2016 15:02:07 GMT
Wouldn't call it low tier worship. Just a desire to try to change the meta. If it can't be done, so be it. It won't be for lack of trying.
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Elishima
Undertale Pass Holder
Let's-a-go!
Posts: 918
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Post by Elishima on May 11, 2016 15:27:00 GMT
Sometimes you need a streak breaker. That's all. I entered a Gannondorf in your next tournament to get me out of this funk, but that is not going to stop me from entering Villager, Diddy, or whatever else low tier I have in future tournaments. They just take time to be good. All I can say is it is easy to make situations fit a narrative. Things are only going a certain way for you because, in your narrative, that's how it was supposed to happen. Your narrative is you lost because you entered low tier and won because you entered high tier. Maybe it was bad luck? It happens. Like I've said, I just scrubbed out of 3 straight tournaments, two of which were high tier characters. Am I salty? No. I just need to work. Besides, not all of your wins/losses fit your narrative. Remember Dedede vs Villager? Break the mold. Defy the tiers. Work like you've never worked before and earn the glory you desire. The glory I desire.. Can only be received from using the best. I desire Winning. I desire moving forward. (But in what way though? If you desire winning so much, then why on earth would you bother having a tango with the lower tiers in the first place? If putting faith into something and then having them let you down is the case, then I understand that. What I don't get is that you abandon the very thing you put you trust in all together.) Ganondorf took me farther than any other amiibo. He's s rank. See what I mean? I'll never win with low tiers. (With that attitude, no. You won't.)You know what? I'll make a deal with you low tier worshippers. (Oh, I see how it is. Does that make you a top tier worshipper then? )I'll put a d rank in WAS 3. if I rank in at least the top eight.. I'll end this anti-low tier thing. I'll put faith back into them. But if I don't rank top eight.. If I go home in the first round.. I'll never use a low tier ever again, and I'll be right about them. You have yourselves a deal. (Why bother? You sound like you're placing yourself up above all of us. Like you're a better human being for using top tiers. I don't get it. We all have different motives, but we're all trying to achieve the same goal here. Can't we just get along?)
Bro, if you're really so fed up with low tiers and believing that top tiers are the only characters that can win tournaments, fine. I'm cool with that. Whatever. Its what you believe, and its your judgment.
So go ahead, be my guest. Train up a top tier champion that will shock us all. I'm eager to see it.
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